Open floor discussion.

the mixes sound good--no need for major surgery.

For those who've had their stuff professionally mastered, how happy have you been? And how much (ballpark) have you paid?

i've been playing with some of the newer Waves plugs--they've really gotten pretty good, IMO. Between the L3 multiband version and the SSL buss comp, I've pretty quickly gone from nice subtle RMS push (SSL) to loud, but surprisingly transparent "modern master" (L3multi). Except for a 30-40hz HPF on a few U5 tracks that went too deep, almost no need for EQ. Maybe with the SSL a touch of high shelf--but, that's debatable.

I was listening to the old Chet Baker "Chet" album today...CD layer of the SACD...and, well, bright modern mastering kinda blows. In fact, that's the thing about the L3 "sound"--sure, it sounds nicer at a low volume, but if you analog "match" volume levels, it sounds better to my ear without. Yet, I recognize that sound from so many records I buy.

I'll tell you, loudness and relative high end is addictive. I don't hear my album as dull...turn it up--sounds great. Yet, I get in there with the plugs and it shimmers more, but I'm not sure it stands as well when you crank it.

John...shoot me an email about how much you'd charge to master it (about 44min, I think)...maybe we could both do it--you with your nice analog gear and more objective ears...me with the SSL comp+LinearPhaseEQ...we could post them both and get you more work.

Side note if John reads this...you've got that DSD recorder-it doesn't actually author SACD, though does it? Have you had clients get those reproduced? I'm actually thinking if I put it up for sale, I should put my art where my mouth is and offer two options: 256k mp3 for download...and SACD for hard copy. I know that'll piss some people off who want a CD, but at this point, with (nice sounding) SACD players $150 and iPods being far more convenient for mobile listeners, I just don't see much point in the beast anymore. thoughts?

Can I try to master one of your mixes man?

Jamie, I'll tell ya... Of the "shootouts" that I've been to & read about, there's never been one where anyone could actually consistently tell the difference between SACD and CD if the source was the same. I'd almost go as far as to say "don't bother" with it.

That said, AFAIK, the DVRA doesn't author SACD... But I think there are certain software solutions for it from DVRA files. THAT said, I'd still go the CD route and hold onto the 24-bit files.

If you want to give people something to really listen to, just have the M.E. *not* crush it. Believe it or not, there seems to be a trend towards that lately... Maybe it's just me. But even the more METAL projects I've been doing lately have asked for more "punch" and less "crush."

I worked on a project last month... Tristan Grigsby (Daitribe, etc.), Jason Bittner (Shadows Fall), Tim "Ripper" Owens (Judas Priest, Iced Earth, Yngwie, etc.), Dave Ellefson (Megadeth), uh... what the hell is his name... The guy from Grim Reaper... Nick Bowcott!

Anyway - All metal thrashing madmen -- And the producer's only instruction: "Don't kill it. Make it hit hard - I don't care if they have to crank it up a bit." And another project from Ron Marks (Celtic Frost) that there is literally a dB or two volume difference from the source files. It's sitting around -14/-13dBRMS (which IMO, is ideal for metal) and all is well.

If this keeps up, I can go back to trying to make stuff sound *good* again!

quote:

Originally posted by John Scrip:
If you want to give people something to really listen to, just have the M.E. *not* crush it. Believe it or not, there seems to be a trend towards that lately... Maybe it's just me. But even the more METAL projects I've been doing lately have asked for more "punch" and less "crush."

I worked on a project last month... Tristan Grigsby (Daitribe, etc.), Jason Bittner (Shadows Fall), Tim "Ripper" Owens (Judas Priest, Iced Earth, Yngwie, etc.), Dave Ellefson (Megadeth), uh... what the hell is his name... The guy from Grim Reaper... Nick Bowcott!

Anyway - All metal thrashing madmen -- And the producer's only instruction: "Don't kill it. Make it hit hard - I don't care if they have to crank it up a bit." And another project from Ron Marks (Celtic Frost) that there is literally a dB or two volume difference from the source files. It's sitting around -14/-13dBRMS (which IMO, is ideal for metal) and all is well.

If this keeps up, I can go back to trying to make stuff sound *good* again!

I'm so happy to hear this. I'm not comfortable going beyond -15 to -12dbrms (depending on the project). This might be the best way to stand out in today's loudness race.

I've got my fingers crossed. Which really makes it hard to type...

Hey, John...so, if you're doing this for me...would you upsample it before starting work? It's at 24/44.1 now. I would think you'd bump it to 88.2 for analog playback conversion into the analog gear...then record the output of the analog chain at whatever sample rates need to be delivered. Dither digitally after that...

I upsample here and there, but for the most part, only if I'm doing excessive digital EQ work.

Admittedly, I'm in the market for a SRC that's actually worth it... But I'm not in much of a rush for it...

TURN ME UP


Follow the new Trend!

Like John says... want it louder, turn up the volume.

Doc

I upsample everything that comes through my door. My converters upsample everything anyway.
This way, if it goes out the door as SACD, DXD or whatevery.. I'm covered. I use the same equipment and it doesn't take any extra time.
It's the same cost to my clients either way!

Regards,
Bruce

Pop,

If you are still following this thread and not to take away from John....

You should go by and talk to Jim Demain at "Yes Master". There is a lot to be said for mastering in person.

I used to go to NYC and LA to master and now I get to stay home. If there is something at Mastering that he is 'fighting', I just go home and print a new mix and bring it back.

His rates are excellent and I find that I can hear really well in his studio.

jmp