Hey Dan, check this out!

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=3a5d033995bf1e95c7feacc4c79a4d41&postid;=7476216#post7476216

Wouldn't be the first time Fletcher's dissed The Listening Sessions... He even said his own "Boston Pre Party" was pointless though... But he claimed it made a shitload of money.

If you go about it in a scientific manner its not musical enough, and if you go about it in a musicial manner its not scientific enough... and if you strive for a happy medium your just lost.

I'm personally thankful for the sessions, which I think is the same way everyone but Fletcher feels about them... I would not buy or not buy a piece based on what I heard at the sessions...

But if you listen to all the sessions its easy to pick out a few "winners"... like the John Hardy M-1, IMHO.

The rest of the reason I buy the gear I do is the paint... Which could be why I don't own a Hardy.

Also, I wonder if Fletcher thinks the RAP cd's were dumb... which basically had RAP members record a song and mention the gear.

The Listening Sessions do the same thing... For free.

Fletcher doesn't seem to understand that many people who buy gear don't work in a place with just about every mic and pre they could possibly want in the first place, close at hand.

As Dot once told me (and I paraphrase)... "I don't listen to A/B tests online... I have, or can get all the gear I want and try it out first hand"... But for the rest of us? Ya dig?

-Dusty

Well, depending on who you are, some of this is a crock of shit. You could also say being a middleman between manufacturers and end users is sort of a crock of shit, too. Reviews are sort of a crock of shit. Maybe getting advice in a forum is sort of a crock of shit.

I think it all depends on the individual's investigation into finding the best gear for them. And The Listening Sessions merely provides another piece of the puzzle. No one of those pieces will given enough information. But read some reviews, ask some questions in a few different forums, listen to some soundfiles - and you'll be a more educated consumer when you finally contact your favorite gear pimp to make a purchase.

I've talked with Fletcher several times before. He even said he liked the drum machine Session 4. He personally sent me a pair of Josephson C42's for the small condenser recordings. Fletcher also showed up for the Preamps in Paradise panel given by Lynn Fuston, and Fletcher has openly bashed the 3D CD's as well.

Something to keep in mind: For the most part, someone like Fletcher has no need for these types of listening soundfiles - since he already has access to tons of gear.

We make soundclips for people who do not have that option. And that would be most people on the planet. The bottom line is The Listening Sessions is just a little over a year old, and the website has just passed the 1,000,000 hit mark. Someone's listening.

Also, these soundfiles do not exist in isolation. They get discussed in forums and linked to for reference.

Here's some comments I made to Tape Op during an interview regarding what I felt was the role of The Listening Sessions:

quote:

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The audience is anyone who is in my position, in that they're not near any major gear store or don't have a chance to try out all of the gear available. Even when I lived in New York City and could audition a lot of gear in the studio, it still didn't even scratch the surface. I do agree, ultimately, with the people who say that you have to try the gear in your studio for your applications. And I agree that there's no substitute for doing that. But the fact of the matter is there is a majority of the audio-gear-buying market that simply can't do that. Sure, you can order a couple of pieces from some of the retailers, try them out and return the one you don't want, but even before you do that you have to figure out which ones you want to audition. Who can round up a collection of over 30 budget large condenser mics or over 40 pairs of small condenser mics or 50 mic preamps, and listen to all of them?

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i personally appreciate every minute that was devoted to these comparisons....

for whatever they're worth, it's still more information than i could ever get together on my own....

it's a service to a lot of people, and fodder for yack-yack for a select few.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dot:

Something to keep in mind: For the most part, someone like Fletcher has no need for these types of listening soundfiles - since he already has access to tons of gear.

We make soundclips for people who do not have that option. And that would be most people on the planet. The bottom line is The Listening Sessions is just a little over a year old, and the website has just passed the 1,000,000 hit mark. Someone's listening.

Also, these soundfiles do not exist in isolation. They get discussed in forums and linked to for reference.

Here's some comments I made to Tape Op during an interview regarding what I felt was the role of The Listening Sessions:

quote:

---

The audience is anyone who is in my position, in that they're not near any major gear store or don't have a chance to try out all of the gear available. Even when I lived in New York City and could audition a lot of gear in the studio, it still didn't even scratch the surface. I do agree, ultimately, with the people who say that you have to try the gear in your studio for your applications. And I agree that there's no substitute for doing that. But the fact of the matter is there is a majority of the audio-gear-buying market that simply can't do that. Sure, you can order a couple of pieces from some of the retailers, try them out and return the one you don't want, but even before you do that you have to figure out which ones you want to audition. Who can round up a collection of over 30 budget large condenser mics or over 40 pairs of small condenser mics or 50 mic preamps, and listen to all of them?

---

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Dan, being one of those who are restrained to mail order about 80% of the gear you tested I felt insulted by how Fletcher, a mercenary, tuned in and tried to dismiss thelisteningsessions.com. I actually regret I even quoted that in the topic subject.

Maybe "crock of shit" isn't that harsh, I do not master english to such an extent, but it did sound harsh to me. I thought, "who the hell does he think he is?", which I tried to tell him by putting things into perspective: to me and zillions of other home recording aficionados thelisteningsessions.com is the most valuable single resource on the net. Period.

Let him get lost along with his Manley and Avalon stuff.

Some talented, yet poor people have recorded great songs on their audiobuddies preamps, alesis mixers, behringer converters, chinese mics and so forth....Fletcher has most likely a thick wallet in the place of his heart....

Dan, I wish I could find that post I made over on the planet quite a while back when nobody was paying attention and now it would be funny!
I was going to say something clever here but I forgot what it was

Eh...anytime Fletcher posts one of those rubs-people-the-wrong-way rants I just kind of shrug and go "yup, that's Fletcher" and move on.

I'd rather have the 'sessions' to check out, than not...And I appreciate the effort it took to compile that much data.

-Stixxs

quote:

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Fletcher doesn't seem to understand that many people who buy gear don't work in a place with just about every mic and pre they could possibly want in the first place, close at hand.

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He still lives in the Pro universe, where if you want to try a mike, you buy it. Budget not a significant problem-at least not for a mike, even a $5K item. Consoles, OTIOH...

Don't fret about it, if you don't like his comments, move on. I have always found his ascerbity (is that a word?) somewhat refreshing, and occasionally insightful - but then I generally don't pay much attention to flames except to laugh...

And the Sessions are a wonderful tool - no, they're not always what you wanted to hear, but by comparison, if you listen to a test of a mike you HAVE, see how the file blends with your take on the mike, then listen to one you don't have with a bit of understanding of what isn't there.

Dasher

I think it is probably b/c of the frustration of having people view things like "the listening session" or lynn fuston's cd's as a "be all and end all."

If I record a vocalist prone to sibilance with a bright mic, that exacerbates his sibilance and label it "#1", then record him with a ribbon that tames it and label it "#2"- does that mean that mic #1 has a essy top? Not really. But a mistaken conclusion can easily be drawn.

I know that the impressions that would be garnered from some of the listening session samples that I heard, didn't correspond to some of my first hand observations. Was it my lack of familiarity with the singer? Probably. I also think that listening to solo-ed tracks is not always the best way to go.

That being said, it is still an admirable undertaking.

Yes, Dan definitely should have matched the levels better.

So......

So what.

I opened up each sample seperately and matched my own levels. Besides, I know ll about the louder/better effect. I can hear right through that.

So, what did I hear? Certain mics being sibilant or grainy, certain mics haveing more dimension or smoothness. Some downright lousy for an application, some obviously excelling in applications.

With the preamps it also showed that some were obviously better suited to certain applications.

In general, while the Listening Sessions may not write out your starting lineup, they definitely get you into the ballpark.

In any case, they are enjoyable and educational, sometimes for the differences you notice, sometimes for the differences you haven't learned to notice, sometimes for how subtle the differences really are.

I don't care what Fletcher thinks about it all because other than using gear in your own setting, for your own applictions, all reviews and opinions must be taken with a grain of salt. At least hearing audio samples in some form is more telling than hearing verbal opinions about gear.

This person iop made some good points

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.p...=7476216#post7476216

Well, I agree with both points of view. I appreciate reviews, opinions and shoot outs, because the more people I hear from about an item, the more understanding I have about its potential usefulness to me.

Even the Listening Sessions and the 3D Audio CDs are a useful tool to help size up mics and preamps. But they're never as good as being there yourself - or trying things in your room yourself.

I liked the sound of an Alesis AM62 tube mic on the female singer when I heard it on the 3D Audio CD. I liked it less than the Manley Gold, Ela m251 and the C12, but I still liked the sound I heard. However, now that I own an AM62, I'm wondering what the hell it was that I liked about it, since it hasn't sounded that good on a single female vocalist I've tried it on. It just sounded good in the recording of that particular vocalist in that particular room on that particular day through that particular pre into that particular convertor and then heard in my room through my speakers.

The biggest kick in the pants is that I had a brief conversation with Lynn Fuston about the AM62 on the CD and asked him if he remembered how it sounded on the female singer, and his words were, "It did nothing for me". But because I trusted what I heard on the CD more than the opinion of the guy who was present at the session, I ended up with a marginally useful mic.

Fletcher has told me that the best assessment of comparisons of mics and other gear is when you are physically present in the room to hear the actual source being recorded. That way you can judge what the mic/preamp is doing to the source - whether it's enhancing or degrading it. This is true, but I still like to hear as many opinions and shoot outs as possible anyway. I'm just a bit more wary now.

I don't think anyone believes that a CD of a shootout can be the "be all and end all" of making a decision.

But it's another tool that comes in handy when making a decision...in that context, it shouldn't be denigrated.

I don't think anyone's indicating that listening to the CD supplants using a piece of equipment in your own environment as a decision-making tool.

Kudos to the Listening Sessions. I'm now using high end pre's thanks to you. I made my decision on a certain brand by listening to the comparisons. I don't have access to high end pre's where I live. So guys like me, need this website for help. If it wasn't for this website, I'd still be using those cheap pre's, with average sound. thanks guys, for my awakening.

Ridiculous. Period.

Dan, even if all you do is help one amateur recordist -- which would be me in a nutshell -- then you have made a difference, in my humble and very grateful opinion.

The Listening Sessions is what drew me in. It got me involved in asking dumb questions on here (sorry guys) and got me to paying attention to "better quality" gear. So for me, and a few others mentioned this, I don't have access to much more than low-level entry kinda stuff around here at the music shops, and would have to drive two-to-four hours just to get an idea of what sounds like what.

So to me, you've provided a great service. pretty much unlike anything else out there online. At the least I can get an idea, at the most, I've picked my gear.

So... pay no attention to our jaded breathren.

2.5 cents

-Adam

A big ditto to what 1adam12 said. I have found Dan's reviews and listening session info to be very helpful in the process of considering and selecting microphones.

Thanks Dan!

-Joe

All the pro gear in the world doesn't seem to help make Fletcher's god awful band sound any better. Some here aren't pros and don't really think a condescending attitude commands *any* respect whatsoever.

Dot, keep up the great work with the Listening Sessions. An invaluable resource!