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6th kyu |
Hi Dot. I just joined. Great to be here!
I have a question re a great tip you posted a while back re recording gtr and vox together: Set up the vocal cardioid mic at the height of the singer's mouth about 9" away – give or take a few ". Put a second cardioid mic down past the bridge - out about 1' or so away from the guitar. And angle the mic at 45 degrees so it's facing the bridge of the guitar. Set levels and make you're recording. Then, at mixdown, take the track that used the mic to record the guitar at the bridge, and pan it hard right and reverse the phase. And the track with the vocal should be panned dead center. What will happen is that the guitar track [ while being played with the vocal track on ] will suddenly spread to both speakers and "back up" a bit in the mix – and any of the "boominess" will be gone due to the phase cancellation with the vocal mic. And the track with the vocal will have more room and sit in this nice hole created in the center. Very effective, and can give a nice, polished sound. > Unfortunately my Roland BR1600 MTR doesnt have physical track send/returns nor does it allow for plug-ins. So I am unable to reverse the phase on the guitar track on mixdown as you suggest. My question is: if i flip the phase on my preamp (P-Solo) when recording the guitar... will this give me the same result as doing it on mixdown ? Alternatively, if I use a spaced pair of cardioids (KM184s) to record the guitar in stereo, your phase flip technique would no longer be applicable Im guessing, right? many thanks for your help. John in Rome |
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Mod Kyudan  |
John, send/returns don't have anything to do with reversing phase on tracks. You need the ability to copy tracks and reverse phase on tracks.
So I am unable to reverse the phase on the guitar track on mixdown as you suggest. If you can't do that, then I think you're out of luck. Reversing phase on mics and preamps is not the same thing as making exact copies of stereo tracks and reversing the phase on the pair of copied tracks. I'd recommend you get a handle on understanding the basics of multitrack recording before delving into "tricks." --------------------------- Dan Richards The Listening Sessions --------------------------- Pro Audio Consulting (866) 409-3686 |
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Sandan |
Dan, you lost me. How many tracks are we dealing with here? Are you saying to record two tracks (vocal and guitar), and then duplicate the guitar track? Then what? Pan the duplicate tracks hard L/R and flip the polarity on one? Leave the vocal track centered?
A bit of clarification on mic placement wouldn't go amiss either. |
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Mod Kyudan |
Sorry! Disregard my reply.
I thought this was in reference to Widening a stereo image. I'll regroup and post again when I get a sec. --------------------------- Dan Richards The Listening Sessions --------------------------- Pro Audio Consulting (866) 409-3686 |
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6th kyu |
Sorry if I asked a green question..
Anyway, I've now learned that "reversing phase on mics and preamps is not the same thing as making exact copies of stereo tracks and reversing the phase on the pair of copied tracks" which is what I really was trying to understand here. so, even if I am out of luck as you say, thanks! John |
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5th kyu |
You can reverse the phase of the track in the BR1600.
Set up an insert effect with a Mic Modeling patch - turn off all the other effects in the patch except Mic Converter. Within the Mic Converter effect is an option to reverse the phase of the track. Turn off everything under Mic Converter except the Phase option, Phase -Specifies the phase of the mic. NORMAL - Output has the same phase as the input INVERSE - Output has the opposite phase to the input |
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6th kyu |
Many thanks, Wish, for your helpful reply. Most appreciated.
Sorry my debut here was so inglorious, hope to do better in the near future! J |
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Mod Kyudan |
The send/returns aren't in the equation on this techique. Yes, you could flip the phase on your preamp and get the same results. The technique is for two single mics (one on vox and one on gtr), not a stereo pair. Good luck with it! --------------------------- Dan Richards The Listening Sessions --------------------------- Pro Audio Consulting (866) 409-3686 |
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Mod Kyudan |
Contrast, there's only two tracks. No copying. The main vox track is panned center. The gtr mic tracked is panned hard right, and then the phase reverse. The gtr mic can be placed in various positions. For this technique I happen to like placing the mic down past the bridge, and pointed back at the brige at a 45-degree angle. Hope that helps. --------------------------- Dan Richards The Listening Sessions --------------------------- Pro Audio Consulting (866) 409-3686 |
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2nd kyu |
I think *I* am getting a little lost here myself. Why would a 45 degree phase angled mic cancel any better than normal? (Or is that just for placement?) You keep stressing this 45 degree phase angle thing. As long as the mics are at the right distances and are in phase with each other to begin with I can't see any other reason than placement as a reason for the angling. (Unless it's something to do with the polar pattern.)
And you mean, canceling out the "boominess" in the vocal? Right? "It's the engineer's job to capture the moment. It's the Producer's job to manipulate the moment." --some guy at TapeOpCon |
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